tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21724748.post8116611925252931287..comments2023-09-26T15:14:50.352+01:00Comments on Conservative Party Reptile: More MilneTim Jhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03705980028580424584noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21724748.post-46674434060897201752009-09-12T20:45:16.322+01:002009-09-12T20:45:16.322+01:00What? Milne is saying that to claim that the Sovi...What? Milne is saying that to claim that the Soviet Union was an aggressor nation in 1939 is an insult to the nation that did more than any other to defeat Hitler. I am saying that this is arrant nonsense. Soviet Russia did indeed do more than any other nation to defeat Nazi Germany, but it was also and undeniably an aggressor nation in 1939.<br /><br />You are ignoring the entire history of the war prior to Barbarossa. What happened following the German invasion is only tangentially relevant to Soviet motives beforehand.<br /><br />As for it being the Russian people that fought against Hitler, it's really not relevant to the point I was making but fine. It presumably also was not Stalin but the Russian people that invaded and occupied Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Eastern Poland, and tried to do the same to Finland.<br /><br />I know that many on the left don't like this, but Stalinist Russia was no better, and in some ways worse, than Hitlerite Germany. More died in the Gulag and in the engineered famine in the Ukraine than did in the Holocaust. Of course the two regimes were different in many ways, but it is their similarities that are more interesting.<br /><br />Equally, the argument that the USSR was an aggressor nation in 1939, and that it was an equally vile dictatorship to Nazi Germany is an entirely mainstream historical point of view - that was rather what Milne was complaining about.Tim Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03705980028580424584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21724748.post-1530288376861777692009-09-11T22:34:28.161+01:002009-09-11T22:34:28.161+01:00This is just silly - you appear to be countering o...This is just silly - you appear to be countering one silly analysis with an even sillier one.<br /><br />First of all Russia's motives in the Molotov Ribbentrop pact were not entirely defensive (although there were elements of wanting to buy some time for Russia) - it was as you point out used for a degree of aggresive score settling, you need to bear in mind the actaul and perceived role played by many of the victims during the Civil War less than 20 years before. <br /><br />And there is no doubting the vileness of Stalinist and Bolshevist ideology - but there is legimate point that you cannot equate the two regimes. They were different in their different ways - and differnt lessons have to be learned. <br /><br />And of course the main point you miss is that it Stalin or Stalinist ideology that actually fought against fascism - but the Russian people. And they did so out of decent motives, with enormous sacrifice (on a scale which is really difficult for most European nations apart from the Poles to comprehend), and despite have suffered at the hands of their own tyrants both before and after their Revolution. And we should thank them for doing so - since without them it is very likely that Hitler would have won the war and we would not have enjoyed much of the freedom of the past 60 years. But then you come along with your silly remark "The Second World War in Europe was largely a fight to the death between two vile totalitarian ideologies" and otehrs try to insult their efforts of the Russian people further by equating their efforts with those of the Nazis.<br /><br />While you will find may Russians who will share your views about the Stalinism - but I very much doubt you will find any (apart from a few on the very nutty neo nazi fringe) who would share your view about their efforts in the Second World War. <br /><br />The respect in Russia for the sacrifice they made in the War is immense and evident to anyone who has ever been there and has contact with Russians - and it really has little to do with political ideology - even though many like to try and argue that it is - in this regard you appear to doing the same as Stalin, Putin and others - altough in your case it is for different political ends.<br /><br />There are plentyt of people writing Russian history from all sorts of political perspectives - and none of them argue from your angle I'm afraid.tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21724748.post-72779698196137046912009-09-11T12:34:34.580+01:002009-09-11T12:34:34.580+01:00What can you expect from a Wykehamist and scion of...What can you expect from a Wykehamist and scion of the establishment? I think he sees the world in the same way as the Cambridge communists of the '30's.Recusanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11446741817585462393noreply@blogger.com